Sri Sathya Sai Baba- Ein Guru, Erleuchter und Avater oder was ganz anderes

Hallo Prana

Prana schrieb:
Namasté Gerit

Du willst die Leute sehr an dich behalten in dem du versuchst denen angst zu machen das sie dir nicht mehr gefallen das ist wahrlich sehr scharlatanisch. Ich merke sehr oft das du hier der Besserwisser sein willst und niemanden seine Meinung lässt, schade und bei sojemanden steht erleuchtet, das sollte stehen ,,denkt er ist erleuchtet, da er aber nicht in jedem die erleuchteten sieht ist er es nicht."

Den Titel "Erleuchtet", habe nicht ich mir gegeben, sondern der wird vom System vergeben, wenn man 1000 Beiträge geschrieben hat. Scheinbar hat man es gerade geändert, (es gibt seit längerer Zeit eine Diskussion über die Titel - siehe: Ich will nicht erleuchtet sein) denn jetzt steht dort nicht mehr "Erleuchtet" sondern "Erfahren".

Alles Liebe. Gerrit
 
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Namasté an Alle

Namasté Gerrit,
ok ich sehe es ein das mit dem Titel im Forum aber ich sehe es nicht ein das du alles versuchst besser wissen zu wollen.

Namasté Radha
Ja so sehe ich es auch!
 
Namasté

Ja das ist richtig, er zeigt uns aber auch das Gott uns liebt egal wer und was wir sind. Gott oder das Karma das gesetz Gottes lässt uns unsere Konsequenzen selber tragen.
 
Hallo

Zum thema Kinderschänder und Strafen kannst du meine Ansicht in tread "todesstrafe" nachlesen.
ihr könnt sie lieben aber ich hasse sie nich nicht mal so dass ich da handeln muß im Sinne was man von mir erwarten sollte. ich habe genug dieser leute in meinem leben erlebt und und habe ihnen oft die maschen vermasselt. Am bahnhof war das Standart und ich brauchte sie nur scharf angucken und mir denken was er will. bestimmte Gruppen von diesen leuten kann ich auf meilen riechen und nehme sie in großen Menschenmassen wahr. ich hätte die auch locker dauernd auf frischer tat verprügeln können, aber es langt schon ihnen zum Auto zu folgen und so zu tun wie als wenn ich mir die Autonummer aufschreibe. Das waren aber die hartnäckigen die meinten das sie heller als ich sind und da grinste ich als letzter und nicht sie.

cya
 
Hallo,

gerade, daß er sich jedem anders zeigt (im gleichen Moment), sollte den Betrachter doch aufwachen lassen, daß jeder sein eigener Schöpfer ist!

Alles Liebe
prema
 
Queerkopf schrieb:
Hallo

Hingabe und Unterwürfigkeit sind aber oft ein paar Schuhe. Woher kommen die paläste, ist doch nur Unterwürfigkeit die als hingabe kaschiert wird.
kein vernünfiges Meisterschülerverhältnis brauchte eine devote haltung des Schülers. macht auch dem meister keinen Spaß wenn er nicht andere Vorteile wie z.B. Sex oder Geld daraus zieht.

cya

Hingabe ist das, was jeder selbst draus macht. Und wenn jemand glaubt, seine Hingabe in unterwürfigkeit zum Ausdruck bringen zu müssen, ist er selbst dafür verantwortlich. Und wenn er dann in seiner Entsprechung dann auch benutzt wird, kann er andere nicht die Schuld in die Schuhe schieben.
Der eigentliche Punkt ist, das wir immer unsere eigene negative Wirklichkeit anderen in die Schuhe schieben, weil wir sie in uns selbst nicht wahrhaben wollen.
Ich sagte doch, Devotee zu sein, hat nichts damit zu tun, das ich vor einem erleuchteten Meister im Staub rumkriechen muß. Es geht eher darum, zu verstehen was dieser Mann mir vermitteln kann, um mein eigenes Leben eigenverantwortlich selbst in Freude gestalten zu können.
Wenn ich diesem Mann entsprechend meinen Respekt zolle und mich ihm in seiner Lehre anvertraue - ist das meine ureigenste Endscheidung. Dann hat das was mit erlebter geistiger Erfahrung zu tun.
Und Geld oder andere Materielle Güter sind da völlig zweitrangig. Auch ein Guru kann mit seinem Ableben nicht einen einzigen Cent mitnehmen.
 
Namasté

Das was Satnaam sagt ist meiner Meinung nach richtig. Ich denke das wir einen Schatz hier uns bauen können aber wir sollten auch einen Schatz im Himmel oder in unserem Herzen aufbauen denn diesen nehmen wir mit in form von guten Karma. Was nützt uns der größte Schatz hier auf erden wenn wir keinen frieden finden können?
Nichts! Sai Baba Matrealisationen sind nur ein zeichen seiner Liebe, ich denke jeder kann entscheiden was er für sein zeichen seiner liebe wählt, so wie ihr selber entscheidet was ihr jemanden schenkt.
 
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Namasté

Hier etwas interesanntes aber leider nur auf Englisch :(, wäre super wenn jemand übersetzen kann!

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ON THE EVENTS OF JUNE 6, 1993 - MURDERS IN SAI BABA'S PRIVATE QUARTERS

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Happy and secure in my faith in the divine goodness of Sai Baba, backed by decades of experience of him that was mostly positive, I did not find it hard to believe that he could have had no part whatever in the six murders that were committed in June 1993. So unquestioning was my faith that I accepted, in the main, the mostly irrelevant statements he made in the admittedly vague and rambling discourse some weeks later. Written instructions were sent out by leaders of the Sathya Sai Organisation (eg. Indulal Shah, Central Office and Chairman of the Western hemisphere of the SSO, Michael Goldstein) not to question or discuss anything about the incident, but to ignore it and rather concentrate on oneself and one's own spiritual practice (i.e, based on the same principle as ever, namely: God does only what is good, any bad is done by us)! Even some of Goldstein's emotional outbursts and unbalanced ramblings in his letter to Sai devotees seemed to make things like a divine enigma that we could not hope to understand. The old excuse, 'only Swami knows the reason' soon clicked in with the followers. But then, I knew virtually nothing about the circumstances at that time, mostly only the carefully contrived bits of Sai Org. 'information' (disinformation, actually, whether cynical or unwitting brainwashing ). This is all very well, if you care nothing for the victims and their families, for justice or for the truth of the matter.

Devotees do just not want to know and still accept unquestioningly the clumsy and despicable cover-up by the ashram officials, the police, the Andhra Pradesh State authorities and the Indian Government (through the then Home Minister of the Indian Government, S.B. Chavan). In 1995, at the 70th birthday celebrations, I began to hear about the whole episode from a high-standing Indian Administrative Service Vigilance Officer, whose close colleague had been personally involved in the early investigations. The entire account was so shocking and so many confusing points remained unanswered that it seemed impossible to evaluate what was false witness and what genuine, and to piece together the evidence so as to see who might be responsible and what motives the various involved persons could have had. I set about getting inside information from persons whose judgement and honesty I could really trust. This I collated with the many press reports. Eventually the invaluable book by B. Premanand (Murders in Sai Baba's Bedroom') provided a mass of documentary transcripts and other evidence which helped me to understand how massive the cover-up to protect SSB and his brother was.

According to V.K. Narasimhan's private confidences, the police were forced to shoot the four alleged assailants in cold blood by top officials of the ashram and the Central Trust, not least SSB’s own younger brother, Janaki Ramiah, is known to me from an extremely reliable inside source, V.K. Narasimhan, who was on daily speaking terms with SSB throughout the incident and until his death in March 2000. I have given detailed accounts of my long discussion and close friendship with VKN, his observations of and opinions on SSB and his revelations to me in confidence about the murders.
The killings of six devotees in the private apartments of Sai Baba in the temple of Prashanthi Nilayam of 6-6-1993 were never ‘officially’ solved, the investigations having eventually been quashed by the Indian Government in accordance with the ashram’s expressed wishes. The 840-page book, ‘Murders in Sai Baba’s Bedroom’, written and compiled by the skeptic B. Premanand, exposes the crimes by presenting publicly known facts and their possible significance, including court petitions by Premanand himself and official depositions, plus a vast array of newspaper reports, 16 pages of color photos covering the bloody crime scene, and other relevant materials.

Many facts were left uninvestigated or covered up and prime witnesses were left unquestioned, including Sai Baba, who was present close to the scene of the murders throughout, but who never later answered any questions from the press or investigators on the episode (unless he did so in strict secrecy in private to Government officials, as remarks made in public by the then Home Minister and Indian President indicate). On the contrary, SSB later attacked the Andhra Pradesh journalists in the most derogatory and libelous fashion and was never held to account for this, despite their well-founded complaint to the requisite Press Council. He simply has too much money and other kinds of clout among those who determine things in India to answer to anyone at all! The press did their best but were contending with a tight criminal conspiracy of secrecy. The press managed to uncover many circumstances anyhow

Despite the largely very successful cover-up within much of India so far, which relied for its effectiveness partly on the ashram power-brokerage but also on the encouragement of confusion and hearsay of the typical Indian sort, the issue refuses to lie down and die, even within the world-wide Sai movement. There have been many indications of seriously falling numbers of foreign visitors to functions and fall-off in members, recruitment and donations in many countries. No statistics are kept concerning this in the Sai movement (unless secretly).

On whose accounts can one really rely?

Press interviews with the families of all four victims and with various others who had known them well during their many years of service to SSB were unanimous in their view that they were all deeply devoted to SSB - two of them had been long-term close attendants of SSB. There is abundant evidence that the four intruders, alleged by the police to be assailants wishing to kill SSB (though this was denied publicly by SSB himself and by sources close to them), were still devotees in full faith who had another motive in trying to reach SSB that evening.

A question arises in every fair-minded devotee’s mind: “Was this sinister Divine Comedy of heaven and hell not also staged and presided over by the Divine Director, as most devotees who believe in SSB’s self-proclaimed omnipotence would assume to be so, along with all other events at the ashram? Or does this omnipotence not even extend to his own students and ashram staff (when this is not convenient)?” The bemused devotee’s answer to this will probably be, ‘Swami chooses when to intervene and when not, and we cannot understand his mysterious divine motives.’ This mystification puts SSB above the law (which he claims he always respects) and all human standards, but does it not also makes him seem not even human, without normal care and compassion or even courage?

The Central Bureau's Criminal Investigation Dept. eventually had to step in due to public unrest with the police and ashram cover-up, and their investigations began to uncover some of the many irregularities, which ashram authorities and police alike adamantly refused to comment on. Though a prime witness, SSB was never officially questioned!

The brother of one of the alleged assailants, a Sai worker and former ashram security boss, Vijay Prabhu, and his co-worker Ravindra (earlier one of SSB’s closest servitors), were suspected of complicity with the intruders because of explosives and poisons found in their quarters and they were then hunted throughout India for a month and eventually gave themselves up at Nagpur so as to avoid the danger of liquidation by the already hopelessly compromised Andhra Pradesh police. According to the press, they then explained that the intention of the four who were shot by the police had been to present to SSB facts about major corruption in the Central Trust and by SSB’s present attendants. They had no intention of harming SSB, to whom all were devoted and for whom some had sacrificed excellent careers.

The whole case was at length quashed by the intervention of the highest internal authority in India, the Home Minister, S. B. Chavan, who had been called to visit SSB as soon as the police cover-up became transparent and the Central Bureau CID took over. The Chief Minister of Andhra Pradesh acted to close the case on a government order. Moreover, SSB claimed in his Gurupurnima discourse that there had been no attempt on his life. He rambled on in a confusing way about exchanges with his attendant Radhakrishna about drinking buttermilk, visiting the village etc., avoiding giving any real explanation, instead preaching about the cardinal evil, jealousy, “in all spheres of life in the world today,” which he said was behind the incident. He added, as if in justification for all the murders, “The final end is the only cure for it.” He also defended all the members of the Central Trust against corruption allegations (though I am most reliably informed that he dismissed several of them for just that when the matter had died down sufficiently). However, SSB may have inadvertently let out some of the truth behind the confrontation in telling in the same discourse that Radhakrishna had said to him, “Swami has perhaps some doubts that I may go out somewhere and talk to others”. Concealed facts about corruption were claimed by various others involved to have been at the core of the matter. In passing, SSB also timed the death of Radhakrishna to 10.00 p.m., also at odds by several hours with the police report!

Sathya Sai Baba refused to be interviewed by any police or CID officials! The Indian press repeatedly described events, as best they were able to investigate them through eye-witnesses who were too frightened to stand forth with their names. Literally hundreds of articles were written in all as the press tried to do its duty to society. SSB rubbished the entire press coverage and the journalists involved in his highly evasive 1993 Guru Purnima discourse, without explaining a single thing. However, he stated that the whole incident would only serve to increase his fame throughout the world! (Perhaps he was thinking of 'notoriety'). The complaint to the Press Council by the AP journalists' union had not appreciable effect. SSB explained nothing. In the light of official documents alone, no one can seriously contest that the killing spree by police was followed by a totally botched police cover-up. It would have made truly divine comedy directed by a humorous God from on high... were it not for the fact that two valets were murdered and four servants of SSB, who had been most devoted for many years, were executed one by one in cold blood in "the holy of holies", SSB's bedroom. Consiering that he was present when his attendants were murdered, and stood by without lifting a finger while the assailants were killed, Sathya Sai Baba proved he is not reliable as a witness, and certainly not as an omnipotent God defending non-violence. Under British law he would certainly have been condemned for aiding and abetting the covering-up of a crime, at the very least. In India he has such political power as to be beyond the reach of the law. He also says he is entirely above any human laws since he claims to be the creator and dispenser of Divine Law!

Home Minister Chavan revisited SSB five times more in the following months before they could rid themselves of the matter through a confidential government order, administered by the Chief Minister of Andhra Pradesh to close the murder case and suppress over 100 photographs (impounded by K.V. Reddy of the police) and also the CB-Criminal Investigation Dept. report. That this could not even be made public speaks volumes and indicates what astonishing levels of corrupt power brokerage were involved to stop the truth and save SSB’s reputation. The Secretary of the Sathya Sai Trust had asked Chavan to drop the issue as it might harm SSB’s image, which certainly makes honest persons wonder what truths existed that would hurt SSB’s image.........
 
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